??? I was directed this website to see if there was anyone in my predicament.As far as I've been told my wife and I are good to go (there is nothing wrong with either of us).I was hoping to find other men who seem to have there hands tide,meaning they don't know how to react around there wives when they are going through IUI's and IVF's on there extra hormones.We have tried 13 IUI's now and 1 IVF all failed. :-[ I want us to stop the merri gi round and try adoption but my wife is dead sat against it.Part of it has to do with the money ( 200$ plus drugs (in Canada) per IUI) ,(8000$ total per IVF),but mostly it has to do with not being able to help my wife deal with the extra hormones.
If anyone has a say on this please help or please direct me to where I can get some.
Hi Yes unexplained infertility is a really bad deal - the medics can find nothing wrong with us either. The doctor we are with moved us from IUI after 4 atempts and we have just completed are 3rd unsuccessful IVF my wife is beside herself. We were offered counselling but I don't fancy that, I don't know why I just don.t see how talking can help. My wife is now 34 years old and because we have frozen embryos we are going to do another treatment using these. I hope it works.
I can mirrow your issues with your wife the hormones really make mine a different women but I just try an hang on in there - whites black and blacks white if you know what I mean
I think what helped us is we had a break after our first IVF and went on holiday. Before this it had felt as if our lives were on hold and totally centred around the treatment but for a short time at least we almost felt normal again. It certainly helped us to understand each other better.
Try and stick in there GOOD LUCK. Richard
Hi - I also have problems with communicating with may wife at the moment - we have had several attempts at IVF and I find it very difficult. I think you are probably right about taking a break but I don't know if I convince her that it may help.
She has a couple of close friends that she speaks to over the net - I understand they have or are going through treatment as well. But for me other than finding this site I have not spoken to anyone about our issues other than my wife - even our families don't know.
Anyway thanks for the suggestions Richard stay in touch - Cheers........
O! regarding my last message - I am David by the way and happy to chat with you. :)
How much Different is it in England with counselling and monies etc ?
Hi - sorry to here you are having difficulty with communications with your partner.
Since my last post I looked at counselling and it has changed me significantly, but I am not sure of what you are asking regards counselling?
This may help - In my experience counselling in the UK has to be available in all licenced fertility clinics.
The licencing body for fertility clinics is called the Human fertilisation and embryology authority and I understand most countries have something similar i.e. Canada, USA, Australia and many others.
Counselling was free for Shirley and I, in the UK I understand it often is (up to 2 sessions free) when someone is having fertility treatment I am not sure if this is the case in other countries. However which ever clinic you are having treatment with they should be able to either supply specialist counselling or refer you to someone who can.
I found that there usually is some counselling organisation that has a list of specialist counsellors, in the UK it is the British infertility counselling association. Again this information can be easily accessed on the web.
To my supise counselling was very helpful in rebuilding communications between me and my partner Shirley, I felt like you, very alone, where as Shirley had her friends. This obviously gave her confidence but had the counter effect of her thinking I did not understand, it was until we went to see a counsellor that we were able to say to each other just how each of us felt. That was a revelation and helped a lot. We manage to talk now but still things have not happened for us, but at least we are now on the journey (so to speak) "together".
Hope this helps - good luck.
Thanks ,hopefully that will help us as well.
Hi guys,
Communicating with our spouses can be one of the most difficult things. People deal with the issue if infertility very differently and it is and always will be a bit of a mine field. I have found that friends and family generally don't get it and are a relatively pour source for comfort or discussion. They usually mean well but unless they are going though it or have done, their support is generally fruitless.
I highly recommend counselling - it has been good for both my wife an I. Men - we need to get over ourselve and come to the understanding that we really can't cope with it all and we rally don't have all the answers and we really can't fix the problem. Take the time and spend the money to take care of yourself mentally and emotionally - you will have a better journey and a better relationship because of it.
Oh - unexplained infertility really does suck! We have been trying for 12 years and 8 on one type of fertility treatment or another. My wife is 37 now and I am 42. We are getting to the end of our rope now and the stress can build up fast. All the more reason to make sure I am maintaining my emotional stability...
The UK seems to have much more available and better laws around fertility, egg donation, etc. than we do in Canada. All in all though, considering currency exchange costs seem similar. we generally budget about $12k per IVF cycle to cover the treatment and life coaching (counselling).
As to the adoption question - there are a minefield of issues arounf that proces too (and it can be expensive). I know my wife is not keen because she has an desire to carry her own child - this is a very strong urge for most women.
I hope some of this helps - there are never 'right answers'. You need to make the effort to find out how you can communicate with your partner and work everything through with a lot pf patience and love.
Cheers
Thanks for this Adman - very helpful - hope you get something from the write up on egg donation which should be on the site this week.
Good luck
Hi Adman - great to hear your story its very helpful to hear about your journey and how you try and find new ways to cope.
I feel the same as you, keeping communications going is essential with me and my wife and there are many ways we do it - quality time is probably one of the most important - doing things together, actually making the time is not easy but for us it is certainly worth it. It really seems to get us through those low moments.
Its difficult for me as a guy not to want to manage everything but when I do it does not work in fact it often makes things worse. I have learnt to try and just be there for my wife when she gets low, just accept. The time always seems to eventually come around for me to do my man bit and do a bit of rationalising, being patient. As I read this back to myself I think I wish I could do what I have writen all the time, if I am honest I can not.
Ha Ho I can only keep trying.
Again thanks - good luck
As to egg donation - here in Canada that is a very difficult thing to do. There is no such thing as an egg bank and you can't pay someone for their eggs. It has to be from someone you know and all you can do is compensate for the retrieval treatment itself. I wish things were different but they are not.
From what I've heard ,here in Canada,it is against the law to pay for Eggs but a " fee " is expected overe and above reimbursement for hotel travel etc.
Hi - we have contacted the authority in Canada and are awaiting there reply hopefully by Monday we should be able to clarify the current ledgislation.
The Assisted Reproduction Act in Canada:
The (said) purpose of the Assisted Reproduction (AHR) act is to help ensure the safe and ethical use of assisted reproductive technology for Canadians. This act received Royal Assent in March 2004.
The act prohibits any payment to sperm or egg donors, with the exception of expenses (e.g. travel expenses etc.).
It is said that all donors are therefore ultruistic, however there appears to be four options left for couples requiring egg donation:
1 - Ultruistic donor (very long waiting list).
2 - Known donor (friend or relative, emotional implications much more complexed)
3 - Egg share programme (a couple already going through treatment donating 50% of their eggs in exchange for subsidised treatment).
4 - Going abroad i.e. America (where donors a paid resulting in no waiting list (aprox price 4000 dollars per treatment).
Paul Claman MD wrote in J Obstet Gynaecol Can 2007:
For the most part, the Act provides an important foundation for regulation of AHR. However setting standards and regulations for real life practice does leave room for interpritation of the act.
It was astounding, therefore to learn in December 2006 that the AHRC's Board of Directors appointed by the federal government lacks any representation of AHT experts or infertility patients. The board members are free to consult with experts and stakeholders. However without a balanced input from Patients and Physicians - who have the expertise and experience in the managment of infertility problems - there is a grave risk that standards and regulations founded on the act but interprited by the AHR C could be biased by the personal views of the board members.
He goes on to say:
Finally now that the federal government has seen fit to control AHR, with the AHR act becoming law in the spring of 2004, it is time for the treatment of infertility to be incorparated into the Canada Health Act.
Canada is the only country with socialized medicine in the western world that does not provide public funding for AHR treatments. This lack of funding for AHR treatment denigrates the suffering of the infertile and suggests that the importance of having a family is less recognised in Canada than in all other western countris.
i.e. including AHR treatment in the Canada Health Act would compel provisional health ministries to fund AHR treatment.
References: Assisted Human Reproduction Act Royal Assent: March 29, 2004. SC. 2004.
Available at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/A-13///en.
For those in the UK, the ledgislation is the same, donors can not be paid and as in Canada results in long waiting lists for both Eggs and Sperm. However the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Association (HFEA) enacted what are known as the NICE guidlines. These enable sub-fertile couples (free) funding for aprox 2 treatment cychles through the NHS.
Hope this gives food for thought.
It certainly does give food for thought.
My wife and I are going through Egg donation in the UK. Firstly it took us a long time to come to terms with having a baby this way. The emotional road travelled - 4 IVF's, to mention only a little........ it has been a real struggle. Both of us (as others have written about) have coped differently, but arrived at the same decitions together (eventually).
We are still on the waiting list for the Egg Share programme. This means we indirectly pay another couple who have their own fertlity troubles and who is going through IVF to donate 50% of their eggs to us. We have been waiting just over a year now, although I understand we are prity much at the top of the list, so it should not be long.
If it works we will be overjoyed, if it fails ....well back to the tears and then re-think.
Good luck to all out there - Herb.
Thank you for the information.I really appreciate it.
Mark
Our pleasure Mark glad to be of assistance........ take care.
Hi Richard - thank you for your powerful story, I trust you will recieve a lot of replies which I hope enables you through this difficult time.
In addition to this, you may find the one-on-one telephone support line which is available on Monday evenings helpful.
Hi Richard,
You have come to the right place mate, though lets face it none of us would have wanted it this way!
I have not had your history and I am sorry to hear just how down you have been. Mind you I have no sperm either so still have to come to terms with the same issues. It has taken a while but all I can say is that you have to build a new set of rules for your life. The old ones clearly are not doing it for you so you have got to bin them. That's the way to start - sure it takes a while but its the only way to go. My suggestion for now would be to keep dialogue going here - give them a call on Monday and have a chat with them. Then start building relationships, thats whats kept me going, I have found a woman who loves me and we have been together a good while now. She's more reliable than my sperm are I can tell you!!!
Sorry I can't wave a wand and sort it for you, but keep at it mate, you'll get there..
:)
Hi Richard - everyone, I can equate with your downward spiral when life seems to have little meaning, not being able to perform and being terrified of starting a relationship with the opposit sex - what a lonley place in the corner that is.............
Well -glad you found somewhere to be able to at least tell your story. Hopefully this will be the turning point knowing you are not as alone as you thought you were. For me there was no quick and easy resolve as Travis said no magic to make it all go away.
I found the thing that helped me was by forcing myself to join a sailing club, I suppose it could have been any club, something I could belong to..... but sailing was the one I chose. I had always liked sailing as a child and although it was really hard making the effort it turned out to be the best thing I had done in years. I got involved in the weekend activities with like minded people and things proggressed from there. Slowly I began to get my confidence back which allowed me to face some of my fears, most importantly finding out what was happening to my dangly bits. Well it was bad news but I got through, to cut a very long story short I now have two kids with the women I love through donated sperm - A long journey to get here but very pleased I did not throw in the towel when I was in that corner.
Good luck - hang on in there - Richard
Hi -it sounds very frustrating that they appeared to have mislaid your case notes,
however most importantly the best advice you could receive is from your consultant, we suggest you make an appointment with the clinic to have a one to one revue. This will give you clarification of your treatment options and what these options would entail i.e. semen analysis, surgical sperm retrieval etc..
"Occasional mature motile sperm" sounds promising this would have been prior to freeze, so under the circumstances you have expleained it appears quite good - however post thaw is the crucial time.
Regards age, under normal circumstances after the age of 45 years is when "some" males sperm starts to decrease.
Clearly you need to discuss with your clinic the monotory side of your sperm storage to retain your options, and in conjunction with this we would recommend that you also seek a revue with the clinic to discuss all the points you have raised.
Many thanks for all your help.
Please contact your local Samaritons or if you feel appropriate telephone the Mensfe number you have previously telephoned.
Hi Richard, I guess that you may well be still watching, as you made a very powerful, but ambiguous posting............... "not worth carrying on....."
Well I am very sorry to hear that you have got to this point. I do not wish to patronise you, but when we give up, it can be a real release, and by that I mean it can be a sort of acceptance, and from being driven in one direction, we become free to make choices.
This may not be a very popular thing to say on this site, but fertility aint everything, there are the living, the ones we do have, and are available for us to love... and be loved by, who may have become ignored in this quest for "justice" and fairness to have children. We can now trun to them and begin to rebuild new lives.
So if you have let go of one hope, then I pray that you can see it as a point of new beiginings, and move on.
However, at the end of the day, it is your choice and if you are in despair, then as the posting before said, there are many out there who are profesionally compassionate and may be able to help you through the dark days............ use them mate.
wish you well
Mark
I am aware this may be a little late but there has been a lot in the news about fertility tourism - I think this term is dreadful - who do they think they are classing we that have to go abroad for fertility treatment because of the long waiting lists in the UK - We are patients - patients - patients not ****** tourists..............
It makes my blood boil, anyway on a lighter note my wife and I have a wonderful daughter who we treasure and only made possible by the proffessional, compassionate help we recieved on an overseas egg donation programmme.
GOOD ON YOU PROFFESSIONALS WHO AT LEAST GIVE US A CHANCE.