Things that annoy me

[Angus]

Since discovering my fertility problem several things have really made this even worse.

1.  Not being allowed to use spermatids for ICSI.  This really ticks me off.  After finding that there were no sperm to use (even for ICSI) after I had two biopsies I researched this a lot.  There is a series of stages that the sperm goes through to development.  It has the genetic material even as it is going through these stages.  The stage before being called a 'sperm' (based on the appearance) is an elongated spermatid.  These spermatids have been used in ICSI IVF successfully.  Although the rates of pregancy are lower than with mature sperm.  Infact they were used successfully in the UK on one occasion, and then the HFEA immediately banned the use.  I wrote to them, because for my wife and I it was the only option to have a normal family.  I think that if we want to use spermatids we should be able to.  They wrote back and said there is not enough evidence to say it is safe.  But that if clinics could demonstrate safety data they'd review this.  This really is a copout.  Because the HFEA won't allow any research into it in the first place. 

2.  The HFEA are a pain in the butt.  Reading the HFEA booklet, they publish information about 'how to complain about the center providing the fertility treatment'  but glaringly ommitted was 'how to complain about the HFEA'.  So I also wrote to the CEO and the Chairperson of the HFEA asking how do I complain about the HFEA and it's paternal and patronising rules.  I did not get a reply to this issue.  What a bunch of cronies.  I have nothing good to say about that lousy outfit.

3.  Having donor sperm available is another pain in the butt.  If my wife and I cannot have our children then I don't want any.  I do not want my wife having some other blokes kids.  This makes me angry.  But with it so available, it is almost like a default position that seems to be gravitated towards by everyone (except me).  So we have ended up doing this.  We'll see what happens.  I will support my wife, as it is clear that it's what she wants and I'd rather have her happy. At the end of the day having my wife happy in all this is the most important.   BUT, if donor sperm was NOT available then you could be sure that research would go into male infertility issues much more.  You could also be sure that spermatids would be used (as they are in some countries where it is illegal to use donor sperm).  Funny how in this country it is illegal to try and use spermatids but not donor sperm, but in other countries (some in the middle east) it is the other way around.  I wonder who has it right.  Certainly not the HFEA. 

4.  This brings me to the next point.  I have thought about this a lot also.  'Donor sperm'  is a misnomer.  The sperm is the sperm, it is not 'donor sperm'  The 'donor' is me.  I am the one who'll be a 'donor father'.  Who would want to be a donor father?  Enough said on that.

[Angus]

Oh yeah, I forgot to include the other annoying things....

5.  The fact that the proper genetic father can be traced when the child reaches 18.  I thought, well that's OK, if the 'person from whom the sperm came' from is 60 then in 18 years he'll be 78 and pretty unlikely to be around to take my place.  But you guessed it, the HFEA say that the 'person from whom the sperm came' must by under 40 (or 45) I cannot exactly recall.  That is another example of the HFEA making things worse for people.  There is no good reason for that.  For goodness sake, there is no ****** rule out there saying that normal men cannot have children at the age of 55, 60, 65.   Why be such authoritarian prats about age in this case.  (If they could impose rules on all the normal people out there then they would).

6.  This annoying point is also related to the disclosure of the proper paternity information at the age of 18.  It is not neccessary to do this at all.  But the authorities (driven by people who probably think themselves socially superior, but who have not had these issues themselves) strongly advise to do it.  If it was up to me alone then there would be no issue, NO WAY would I disclose this info to the child.  Apparently in developed countries there is around 10% misassigned paternity in normally conceived people anyway.  But we don't have the HFEA police running around  testing everyones DNA to see who is who and then spilling the beans.  So why insist on doing it in the case of fertility treatment?

[mensfe_admin]

Hi Angus,
I have been watching this 'let off some steam space' for a while wondering if anyone would go for it!
To see your contribution was just brilliant to say the least.
I certainly agree with your comments in 3. where you point out about the default position that donor sperm takes - I would love to see more fundamental research into male fertility as you rightly point out. To be so quickly put to one side is one of the most aggravating things in the whole business of infertility.
Good to see you supporting your wife of course and I hope that it will all be OK 'in the end' - though never quite as we would have originally liked!!
Some of your other points will be chewed over here before responding - but thanks again for letting off steam!
As you go on from this point it would be really good if you could fill the space in 'working it out'. Life goes on as you are already aware.
Take care.
Rob

[Angus]

My darling wife had her pregnancy test yesterday.  Positive result.  She is very happy, her family are all very happy.  It's tricky to be the same.  But I'm trying to be a _little happy and not entirely depressed about it.  I am happy FOR her, not so much with her.  I now have to resign myself to the fact that she is having some other guys child.  As stated earlier it was not my first choice to go ahead with children once it was clear we wouldn't have a normal family.
Have now to decide how I tell my parents that they'll be 'sort of grandparents'.  I may wait a few weeks.
Another tricky thing will be to decide the childrens surname.  Yesterday wife said she expected to give it mine.  But I'm not keen, it does not seem right to give it mine. As wife kept hers, seems to be better to go that way.

[mensfe_admin]

Hi Angus,
Well, delighted and concerned about your email, all at the same time.
Difficult questions posed and they will be expecting answers...
Have you been able to chat to anyone confidentailly and at length at the clinic about all this?
Do let me know asap.
Best Regards
Rob

[rtaylor]

Must say that I would be just over the b moon if my wife was pregnant. We have already waited a long time and have to say that its become more importnat for me to at least have a chance to be a 'dad' even if technically the child does not carry my genes. It seems to be that nurture is the hard bit - I mean bringing them up and loving them. Friend of mine who is quite a bit older than me has helped me a lot in this area. he has kids who are 'not his' but they love him to bits - you can see it so much and I think yeh give me some of that!
Sounds like your wife is trying to bridge the gap in the name too?
Whats the score on family having to know the truth - I know the child will but do we have to tell everyone else about our private lives? I certainly don't.
hang in there Angus and let us know how you are doing.
RT

[Angus]

Thank you for the replies.  Actually I think I was having a rather introspective and gloomy day when I posted that last message.  Since then I have done a little more thinking and mulling things over.  Had a good chat to my (wonderful) wife.  I do feel positive about it.  I think that I have reached my nadir and will keep on the up from now.  I'm not the sort of person that ever really experiences dramatic fluctuations in emotional state.  But for a day or two I was strangely welcoming being angry.  The funny thing is I want to be angry about this but watching my wife be happy has been melting my resolve and I must say that watching her smile has been knocking down my dark wall.  I have found myself smiling too and to be honest being angry for the sake of being angry is not worth it.
In reply to why the family has to know.  Well that really is a sorry state of affairs.  After I found out my problem, I suggested my brothers check themselves out.  In a devastating blow they too have the same problem.  There is no diagnosis for it, specifically all tests (genetic, hormonal, etc) are normal.  I just guess there are some things that medical science does not understand, (due to lack of research).  Anyway upshot of this is that they'll have to know the truth because we're all in more or less the same boat.  It would be a gross lie to them (and wives) to imply that all happened naturally.  It would probably give some degree of false hope to them.
Anyway,  thank you.

[Simon]

Firstly, congratulations on your wife's pregnancy! I completely empathise with your situation especially as it sounds as though its become a lot more complex now your brothers may be affected in the same way.  Rob made a good point, even though you sound a lot more positive now, talking these things through with someone at the clinic might help, it helped us with some of the things you mentioned earlier regarding donor sperm anyway.  We received a lot of information about the donor, well, more than I was expecting.  Its disappointing the donor we chose doesnt have my golf talents but that just brings us back to nature vs nurture. I am reassured by the fact the donor has no rights to my child and will never be able to make direct contact but if my child wants to meet their biological father one day then at least they have the option.
There are so many happy, balanced children in the world that are not living with their 'biological parents', many of these children (and many of their parents) will never even be aware of it.
In points 1 and 2 you talk about the HFEA,you make a very good case.  Remember that they would only consider changing their regulations when the people that are affected by these rules; push them to do so.  Don't give up Angus and keep us posted.

[admann]

Angus,

I can certianly understand your frustration. Sometimes the rules that we are forced to live by do not make much sense. it is easy for someone that does not face fertility issues personally to dispense the rules - they are not effected by the reallity of it.

My wife and I have been trying for a child for 10 years. We have tried many different proceedures and non traditional aproaches too. As we move along in your journey, the sting of the thought of using donated sperm or even adoption begins to lessen. I have always said that I (we) would not adopt - my views are beginning to change. The point is, I know we will be good, loving parents. Where the baby comes from or how it is concieved becomes less the point over time. At least in my experience. We still have not made the decision to adopt, our quest for a pregnancy is not over yet but the thought is less painful all the time.

Best,
AD