Our case of azoospermia - beginning

[AandO]

Hi everybody!

We have just registered but been reading posts for a while. Its a pity almost all posts are dated and there are no new cases and stories.
That is why we decided to add our experience to the ones of Chris, Matt, Robby and a couple of more guys. Although we are just at the beginning of everything and mainly are seeking support and advice, I do hope there are other people out there who can be interested in our story.

Let's firstly introduce ourselves - we are a young (28 & 30 yrs.old) international couple living in Middle East (excuse our English - not perfect but hopefully understandable for you). We married in 2008 and since that time I had been taking pills (I'm writing also on behalf of my husband whose English doesnt allow him to post himself). We always knew we are going to have children but as we are of different religions it was important for us to come to a mutual point of view of raising the children. We had long and constand arguments... we decided we will not start "making" the babies unless we are sure we will not divorce. Once it was another argument and both of us were nervous to say the least.. and my husband just told: then I dont want to have any children! ( ) and I thought: Ok, I will not get pregnant and I!! will decide when and whether we will have children (poor naive people ((

But somewhere deep inside we both wanted and were ready for children. And once when my husband was in his home-city, he went to a doc... He called me and hinted that the baby-making process isnt going to be easy. I remember I couldnt believe it as I knew very little on infertility topic. I sat at computer and started looking for information. I was optimistic - I found out that almost everything can be treated nowadays, apart from azoospermia (hm, such a strange and not friendly word). But who cares about that azoospermia - it's a very little chance of us having it anyway. So, I stayed optimistic unless my husband returned home and shared with me the result of his Sperm test.... which showed nothing. no sperm. zero. many zeroes in a place where some other figures should be. we both couldnt believe it. it was a knock out - that strange word azoospermia which I read about before, that word stroke my mind - it was a very little chance - and it's our luck... or'd better say lack of luck, to get exactly this diagnosis.

We sat and spoke about our future plan of actions. We decided to start a healthy life style (he smoked at that time) and take some vitamins and make another test. I 'fought" with my husband to quit smoking for a sake of our unborn children. Finally he gave up. I bought different supplements which included a wide range of vitamins, Zink, etc. he went to gym. And we hoped for better. Next sperm test had the same result. Zero. The doc in his home-city asked to make hormon tests, made physical examination and ultrasound. On basis of all this he informed my husband that he doesnt have any obstruction and simply doesnt have sperm. He didnt explain the result of hormon tests or offered any treatment. The idea what he wanted to deliver to my husband was kind of: son, save your money and nerves and forget about children.

But we COULDNT forget about children - it was our dream - you all understand our feelings. My lovly husband went to another doc whose specialty was UVF/ICSI who only had a qucik glance at the results of previous tests and suggested making TESE/ICSI - the next month. It was crazy - he never has checked me, he had no idea whether Im ovulating or not, whether my health allows me treatment or not - MONEY, only money was important for him. My dear husband was supressed by this attitude and refused to visit any other doc. Time passed - 1 year and we decided to find a good fertility clinic and see what option we have.

This time we were dreaming about children and all those arguments in the past were sooo stupid and irrelevant! How blind were we to argue about the way of raising up the children! ABout the clothes they will wear, the things they will do... The thing to HAVE the children matters much more now than everything else in the world! We now grin sometimes at ourselves - so really stupid of us to think that WE can decide to have or not to have children! God forgives us!

So, we found a fertility clinic. I must mentioned that no-one made any kind of diagnosis for my dear husband. it was me, who presumed it was azoospermia - but off course Im not a doctor and cant know details or reasons. The doc at that clinic listened to us, looked through the sperm tests (didnt ask to make a new one), checked myself by ultrasound, found out I have a fibroid which still allows me to conceive and suggested 2 options: 1. stimulating me, TESE/ICSI the same day , 2. TESE/cryopreserving/stimulating/ICSI.

he was short and didnt go into details of the process, advantages and disadvantages. off course insisted on variant 1 - he would benefit more this way. To be honest, we have shortage of money funds and prefered the 2nd option - also thinking of me not suffering the overstimulation for nothing in case we find nothing in TESE.

2 days after the consultation we had TESE. Clinic was full of patients (it was our first time realizing we are not alone with this problem).
Before biopsy I went through as much info as I could on biopsy of testis and was ready with a list of questions for a doc. The most important was: will they consider spermatids in case of lack of mature spermatozoe as the possible source for ICSI. The rubbish doc assured me that yes, off course they will look for spermatids and if they find - they will cryopreserve them. Also he told the procedure take around 20-30 min. My precious lovely husband was missing around 2 hours!! I felt there is smth that went wrong. I prayed and I prayed in the waiting room. I prayed again. Finally they pushed the trolley with my husband in - he didnt look at me, avoided my eye conact. I kissed his hands and head trying to support him - and he burst into tears. I knew at this moment there is nothing found again. The world crashed. ANd I only imagine how my dearest husband felt - his tears were rolling down the cheecks and I coulnt help it. He thought he let me down... I felt so sorry for him! He was in pain but after 2 hours after surgery we had to leave the clinic - he couldnt stand it any more. No one came to follow up his state, to give the result, to check on him. he felt like a dog kicked out in the street. It hurt him that he was useless - no sperm for his wife, no more money for the clinic. My heart was about to break for his sufferings. They promised to give result in 2 weeks. Its been now 4 months - and no official result. No one told him even: you dont have sperm. It was a part of the conversation between doc and lab person which my husband cought while being tortured. Doc simply didnt have time to inform him officially - a dozen of other patients who do have sperm are waiting for biopsy - no time for spermless guy who will not be able to pay more.
Its a rubbish attitute and rubbish clinic! They throw useless people like a piece of garbage.

My husband recovered after TESE - physically. Morally - he told he is not going to repeat ever in his life.

SO, the problem we are facing now is: my husband loves me incredible (the same way I do) and hence wants me to leave him in order to build a normal family with children. He cant forgive himself if I stay with him and then all my life will grieve about the lost chance to have babies. We love each other as much, as Chris for example loves his good lady... and now, when Im still 28 I want and intended to stay with him. But I fear the time when Im 40 - no children... ((

reading the other threads in here, I came across someone (sorry, guys, havent learnt yet the names) mentioned about spermatids and donor sperm for icsi.

donor sperm isnt an option for us, but rather spermatids - it is allowed here in Middle East to do so but rather little info on this topic - especially dated 2003.


Well, this is our not finished story. If you have anything similar, please share with us! We would be glad to know if people did ICSI with spermatids or at least the experience with donor sperm - what about your feelings???

regards
AandO

[art]

Welcome to the forum. I read your post and can't help feeling sad on your behalf. It sounds like you've had a really tough time, and I hope that people may comment on your post and give you useful information an support.

For myself, I can only say that ICSI worked for us, but I did have some normal form speem, so didn't have to use spermatids. Hopefully someone who has will contribute here.

I wish you both all the best with your fertility journey.

[robbyb]

Hello AandO.
First off; welcome to the forum.

I'm so sad to hear of the problems you've been having and of the contempt and money-driven motivations you've been shown by specialists so far.
Its not fair and it's a cruel thing to take advantage of such a vulnerable couple.

"Good luck."
Thats the most important thing I can say at this point. Who knows what will come next in your story? I don't but I and I think hundreds of other people will read what happens, with sympathy and understanding.
Certainly, those of us who have posted here regularly over the past few months and years can relate to your problems and the feelings of anger, sadness and despair that come with those problems.

I've said it before, people you tell may feel sad for you but they'll never understand the gut-trembling grief and (for us men, certainly) anger you feel.

However,  I'd just like to point out that all of the main stories of the Last two years have had two things in common...
Me, Chris, Mat, Art and Rocket...

1) We all have had times of utter, total and complete despair.  Times where there was no hope and no possiblity of a future with children. 

2) We. All. Now. Have. Children.

See where I'm going with that?  I, not so patronising or naive as to say that even when there is no hope you should hope anyway but what I am saying is, at this stage, you don't ~know~ anything.  No diagnosis, no in depth exploration of your next-step options ... and there will be options. You have a lot of fear and heart-ache and human nature makes us fear the worst but keep going.  Keep going.

All the stories on this forum are totally different (fourth cycle, first cycle, low count, azoospermia, donor egg, donor sperm, ICSI, surgery, blastocyst, assisted hatching ... and combinations of all them and more) but at the same time all the stories are the same.
We all hurt, we all cried, we all despaired, we all supported our partners (most of the time anyway; guilty as charged!) and we ~all kept going~, finding hope where we could.

And we all supported each other.

Keep talkingto us and telling us what's happening.  We want to know.

Good luck to you and best wishes to your husband; he sounds like a good man.

RobbyB

[AandO]

Thanks Art and Robby! Thank you for feeling for us! feeling our despair! Thank you for the words of support! It must be pointed out for everyone just not to loose the hope what Robby pointed: people who posted their stories now have children. It really inspires!

yesterday my beloved husband (who is really really the best husband in the world - the most caring and loving) told he closed the children-topic for himself, just crossed it out from his life. As all doctors said: biopsy is the last stage, the end of the treatment. No sperm, finished. he believes in it. We didnt discuss the next step - just because he thinks there is no next step, and I collect more and more info and evidence that there IS the next step.

I found out today that yes, biopsy is the last step, but AFTER such tests like hormone test, caryotype, the possible treatment in case of wrong hormone results. And we had biopsy almost on the first step. We never tried to improve hormones or even to know if it's genetic or not. And as some ladies shared their experiences with azoospermic husbands - a couple of them did have the improvement, from zero sperm to 20 mln!!! Can you imagine!? It was the problem in hormone and after a year or so of take hormonal injections they increased the sperm count at least till the number sufficient for ICSI! 

So, I want very much to take the next round: sperm test, hormone test, caryotype and possible treatment. I hope my lovely and supportive husband agrees on it although I know it hurts him to raise another hope and then see how it dies again. Its very difficult to find your hope crashed against the reality. Sometimes no power more to hope - just float with the current of everyday life trying not to think about a little creature with the eyes of the wife. Thank you again for all of you, who posted and will post on this site - every one of you gives knowledge and most important HOPE. Robby, your words are just inspiration for us - golden rules. Thank you for them!

Take care all!

[chrisd]

Good luck to you both, I know only to well the heartache you are going through.

I hope that you get everything you desire and that your wait is a short and painless one.

All the best
Chris

[robbyb]

Hi AandO.
Not heard from you in a while.
How's it going?

Rob

[JD80]

Dear AandO

I read your story and felt emotional after - not of sympathy, but of empathy and the desire to do anything to help. I understand an element of how your husband feels, but please stay strong together. The love you have for each other is so much needed in the ivf journey.

My wife and I had ICSI. I was very low and felt useless. Had it not been for the love of my wife and the great people on this forum, I'm not sure I could have had the strength to go through it. We were truely blessed and we are now 10 weeks pregnant. My point is that miracles can happen.

I wish you the very best of luck. Use the resources of support, pray, and hope that everything works out for you. All the best,